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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s morality got to do with it?</title>
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		<title>By: CJ Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/blog/sean/whats-morality-got-to-do-with-it/#comment-8134</link>
		<dc:creator>CJ Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 01:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/?p=1133#comment-8134</guid>
		<description>If we took all the TARP money and the Billions and Billions we keep shoveling to Fannie &amp; Freddie to keep them afloat we could have recast most of the mortgages with negative equity once and only once to the current market value with a fixed rate loan say of 6% and they if anyone missed two payments in a row they move out of the house in 30 days PERIOD!  This would have been fair to those in trouble and those that actually pay their bills.  No one has ever suggested such an outlandish idea now have they?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we took all the TARP money and the Billions and Billions we keep shoveling to Fannie &amp; Freddie to keep them afloat we could have recast most of the mortgages with negative equity once and only once to the current market value with a fixed rate loan say of 6% and they if anyone missed two payments in a row they move out of the house in 30 days PERIOD!  This would have been fair to those in trouble and those that actually pay their bills.  No one has ever suggested such an outlandish idea now have they?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/blog/sean/whats-morality-got-to-do-with-it/#comment-7293</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/?p=1133#comment-7293</guid>
		<description>Look out... we&#039;re getting into politics now.  I for one would love to see more statesmen than career politicians.  I thought the following quotes from Thomas Jefferson were mildly relevant and worth sharing.

Truth is certainly a branch of morality and a very important one to society. 

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. 

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. 

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. 

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. 

Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government. 

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world. 

We may consider each generation as a distinct nation, with a right, by the will of its majority, to bind themselves, but none to bind the succeeding generation, more than the inhabitants of another country. 

Whenever you do a thing, act as if all the world were watching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look out&#8230; we&#8217;re getting into politics now.  I for one would love to see more statesmen than career politicians.  I thought the following quotes from Thomas Jefferson were mildly relevant and worth sharing.</p>
<p>Truth is certainly a branch of morality and a very important one to society. </p>
<p>In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. </p>
<p>A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. </p>
<p>I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. </p>
<p>Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. </p>
<p>Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government. </p>
<p>It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world. </p>
<p>We may consider each generation as a distinct nation, with a right, by the will of its majority, to bind themselves, but none to bind the succeeding generation, more than the inhabitants of another country. </p>
<p>Whenever you do a thing, act as if all the world were watching.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean O'Toole</title>
		<link>http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/blog/sean/whats-morality-got-to-do-with-it/#comment-7290</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean O'Toole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/?p=1133#comment-7290</guid>
		<description>Great point Brent. I think it will be very interesting to see if the public&#039;s, and the politician&#039;s mood changes from wanting to help keep people in their homes, to getting them out and moving on. I see some public sentiment in that direction, but zero political shift so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great point Brent. I think it will be very interesting to see if the public&#8217;s, and the politician&#8217;s mood changes from wanting to help keep people in their homes, to getting them out and moving on. I see some public sentiment in that direction, but zero political shift so far.</p>
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		<title>By: Brent</title>
		<link>http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/blog/sean/whats-morality-got-to-do-with-it/#comment-7288</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 19:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/?p=1133#comment-7288</guid>
		<description>Haven&#039;t read all the posts here (some of which may have vetted my point thoroughly).  I&#039;ve got no issue w/ people not making payments and losing their homes as a consquence. That&#039;s how the contract mechanism works.

But, what about those underwater borrowers not making any PITI payments and continuing to live in their homes for over a year or more while they evaluate mods, short sale, bankruptcy, or any other maneuvers to stave off foreclosure?  How nice to squat and live occupancy cost free.  These borrowers should have moved long ago and now be renting, but they&#039;re not b/c the system has allowed it to be so.  What about all those renters seeking to own, who&#039;ve been patient, paying their rents and can&#039;t find a home b/c inventory levels are shrinking due to foreclosure preemption efforts?

This problem is growing and will cause artificially high GDP #&#039;s since borrowers have basically cut 1/2 their costs out of their personal expense budgets, making those $ instead available for retail expenditures, travel, etc.  This issue is exacerbated when the underwater mortgage is a re-fi vs. purchase $ - the borrower pulls cash out of the house ATM, overdraws the balance, and is able to sill draw cash out via not making any more PITI payments?

This rescue effort is a joke.

What if the good borrowers forced the hand of moral hazard and did the same thing?  If 15 - 25% of the population with mortgages are doing it, why shouldn&#039;t the rest of us borrowers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haven&#8217;t read all the posts here (some of which may have vetted my point thoroughly).  I&#8217;ve got no issue w/ people not making payments and losing their homes as a consquence. That&#8217;s how the contract mechanism works.</p>
<p>But, what about those underwater borrowers not making any PITI payments and continuing to live in their homes for over a year or more while they evaluate mods, short sale, bankruptcy, or any other maneuvers to stave off foreclosure?  How nice to squat and live occupancy cost free.  These borrowers should have moved long ago and now be renting, but they&#8217;re not b/c the system has allowed it to be so.  What about all those renters seeking to own, who&#8217;ve been patient, paying their rents and can&#8217;t find a home b/c inventory levels are shrinking due to foreclosure preemption efforts?</p>
<p>This problem is growing and will cause artificially high GDP #&#8217;s since borrowers have basically cut 1/2 their costs out of their personal expense budgets, making those $ instead available for retail expenditures, travel, etc.  This issue is exacerbated when the underwater mortgage is a re-fi vs. purchase $ &#8211; the borrower pulls cash out of the house ATM, overdraws the balance, and is able to sill draw cash out via not making any more PITI payments?</p>
<p>This rescue effort is a joke.</p>
<p>What if the good borrowers forced the hand of moral hazard and did the same thing?  If 15 &#8211; 25% of the population with mortgages are doing it, why shouldn&#8217;t the rest of us borrowers.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/blog/sean/whats-morality-got-to-do-with-it/#comment-7084</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/?p=1133#comment-7084</guid>
		<description>Lorrie,

Please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality

The interesting thing as I see it (in light of the wiki description), is that yesterday, it was quite immoral (contrary to social norms) to walk away.  People who did were making a financial decision vice a moral decision.

However, with as many people as have walked away, we already notice that there is no longer the same social stigma associated with short sales or foreclosures and that as a result, by the very definition of morality, social norms are changing.

It would seem that all this dicsussion exists only because we are transitioning between two stages of whether or not it is acceptable to walk away.

Interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lorrie,</p>
<p>Please refer to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality</a></p>
<p>The interesting thing as I see it (in light of the wiki description), is that yesterday, it was quite immoral (contrary to social norms) to walk away.  People who did were making a financial decision vice a moral decision.</p>
<p>However, with as many people as have walked away, we already notice that there is no longer the same social stigma associated with short sales or foreclosures and that as a result, by the very definition of morality, social norms are changing.</p>
<p>It would seem that all this dicsussion exists only because we are transitioning between two stages of whether or not it is acceptable to walk away.</p>
<p>Interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Lorrie</title>
		<link>http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/blog/sean/whats-morality-got-to-do-with-it/#comment-7065</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorrie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 08:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/?p=1133#comment-7065</guid>
		<description>loanmesaranch-  you don&#039;t get it and I&#039;m sorry but it&#039;s not your job or any one&#039;s job to tell me or anyone else for that matter what my moral obligations may or may not be. It&#039;s as individual as religion and sexual preferences because what suits you may not fit nicely in my life.  
I never said I couldn&#039;t afford the payment.  I didn&#039;t buy a house with a payment I couldn&#039;t afford. 
A persons home is suppose to be an asset not a liability and anyone with any business sense knows to dump a liability. I&#039;m not going to slide into my 60&#039;s owing more on a home than it&#039;s worth.  You got to know when to fold em. When to cut your losses and move on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>loanmesaranch-  you don&#8217;t get it and I&#8217;m sorry but it&#8217;s not your job or any one&#8217;s job to tell me or anyone else for that matter what my moral obligations may or may not be. It&#8217;s as individual as religion and sexual preferences because what suits you may not fit nicely in my life.<br />
I never said I couldn&#8217;t afford the payment.  I didn&#8217;t buy a house with a payment I couldn&#8217;t afford.<br />
A persons home is suppose to be an asset not a liability and anyone with any business sense knows to dump a liability. I&#8217;m not going to slide into my 60&#8217;s owing more on a home than it&#8217;s worth.  You got to know when to fold em. When to cut your losses and move on.</p>
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		<title>By: loanmesaranch</title>
		<link>http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/blog/sean/whats-morality-got-to-do-with-it/#comment-7050</link>
		<dc:creator>loanmesaranch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/?p=1133#comment-7050</guid>
		<description>I must say that all this bantering makes no sense to me. At the end of the day a consumer purchases an item that they can either afford or not. While there was a lot of creative financing there was also plain vanilla product. Many of the loans that have bellied up were plain vanilla and granted had unbelievable low qualification standards. For example DTI &gt; 55%. However with that said consumers did not act sagaciously. Why would you think that you can pay for things that you purchased and only have 45% of your gross income remaining. There are such budget items as food insurance, gas, taxes etc. I personally think that we have created a society of &quot; let&#039;s have one up on the Jones family&quot; mentality. There is no patience and no accountablity. I remember a story my dad told me during WW2 about cigarettes. Today we know that cigarette smoking is bad and everyone thinks that it was a big secret that it was hidden by the cigarette manufacturers. Well he knew as his friends did, it was bad for them but chose to smoke just the same and suffer the consequences. This applies to anything that is done in excess. We as humans are all responsible for own actions If we choose to live with excesses than there are consequences. I think what has transpired in this day and age is that the generational mentality is all about themselves and if it doesn&#039;t fit in what is deemed relevant it becomes a non issue. Let&#039;s throw away spouses, jobs, homes etc. Very disposable because we are no longer tough and don&#039;t know how to see things through. Society has become soft and as a result we have behaviour which reflects this type of attitude and discussion . It is about morality. A home is not an investment vehicle and it really shouldn&#039;t matter if the value is up or down. It is a place you live, It is a place you chose to purchase and it is a debt that you chose to take on. Granted circumstances exist that preclude you from repayment( loss of a wage earner, illness, etc) but just wanting to &quot;strategicly default&quot; because the house prices have declined isn&#039;t one of those reasons. Banks only lend if there is a market to lend to. If consumers had the strength to say no then banks would not be ailing and on the converse if banks would not of offered then the banks would not be ailing. No one entity is more at fault. So with that mouth full bottom line is if you borrower money whether through a contract or a handshake you are morally obligated to repay it. All the excuses in the world ( including stupidity)will not change that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must say that all this bantering makes no sense to me. At the end of the day a consumer purchases an item that they can either afford or not. While there was a lot of creative financing there was also plain vanilla product. Many of the loans that have bellied up were plain vanilla and granted had unbelievable low qualification standards. For example DTI &gt; 55%. However with that said consumers did not act sagaciously. Why would you think that you can pay for things that you purchased and only have 45% of your gross income remaining. There are such budget items as food insurance, gas, taxes etc. I personally think that we have created a society of &#8221; let&#8217;s have one up on the Jones family&#8221; mentality. There is no patience and no accountablity. I remember a story my dad told me during WW2 about cigarettes. Today we know that cigarette smoking is bad and everyone thinks that it was a big secret that it was hidden by the cigarette manufacturers. Well he knew as his friends did, it was bad for them but chose to smoke just the same and suffer the consequences. This applies to anything that is done in excess. We as humans are all responsible for own actions If we choose to live with excesses than there are consequences. I think what has transpired in this day and age is that the generational mentality is all about themselves and if it doesn&#8217;t fit in what is deemed relevant it becomes a non issue. Let&#8217;s throw away spouses, jobs, homes etc. Very disposable because we are no longer tough and don&#8217;t know how to see things through. Society has become soft and as a result we have behaviour which reflects this type of attitude and discussion . It is about morality. A home is not an investment vehicle and it really shouldn&#8217;t matter if the value is up or down. It is a place you live, It is a place you chose to purchase and it is a debt that you chose to take on. Granted circumstances exist that preclude you from repayment( loss of a wage earner, illness, etc) but just wanting to &#8220;strategicly default&#8221; because the house prices have declined isn&#8217;t one of those reasons. Banks only lend if there is a market to lend to. If consumers had the strength to say no then banks would not be ailing and on the converse if banks would not of offered then the banks would not be ailing. No one entity is more at fault. So with that mouth full bottom line is if you borrower money whether through a contract or a handshake you are morally obligated to repay it. All the excuses in the world ( including stupidity)will not change that!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/blog/sean/whats-morality-got-to-do-with-it/#comment-6927</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 05:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/?p=1133#comment-6927</guid>
		<description>Sean makes an excellent point.  And if I recall correctly, it was Barney Frank denying that lending should be reigned in and that he didn&#039;t see any problems with Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac.  Of course, I believe it is now the same Barney Frank saying that we need to save Fannie / Freddie.

We need less career politicians and more true statesmen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean makes an excellent point.  And if I recall correctly, it was Barney Frank denying that lending should be reigned in and that he didn&#8217;t see any problems with Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac.  Of course, I believe it is now the same Barney Frank saying that we need to save Fannie / Freddie.</p>
<p>We need less career politicians and more true statesmen.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean O&#39;Toole</title>
		<link>http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/blog/sean/whats-morality-got-to-do-with-it/#comment-6896</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean O&#39;Toole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 04:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/?p=1133#comment-6896</guid>
		<description>mefron - you seem to forget that at the time most &quot;experts&quot; were telling these people to buy a home, that the bubble wouldn&#039;t burst, that if they got in over their head they could always refinance or sell and worst case they&#039;d make a buck on the appreciation. Remember? Prices were going up so fast it didn&#039;t matter if you could afford it, as you&#039;d always be able to sell. Or at least that&#039;s what they said.

One out of 10 homeowners in CA has now stopped making their payments, 1 out of 3 is underwater due to prices being pushed beyond reason by unsustainable lending practices. Pretty hard to suggest this is all due to borrowers not being &quot;adults&quot;.

I totally get why renters and savers who didn&#039;t listen to the experts and instead did the right thing are angry. But focus that anger on the folks that made these loans available, and the experts (think congress, fed chairman, etc) that told people adjustable mortgages were ok, and that the bubble wouldn&#039;t burst.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mefron &#8211; you seem to forget that at the time most &#8220;experts&#8221; were telling these people to buy a home, that the bubble wouldn&#8217;t burst, that if they got in over their head they could always refinance or sell and worst case they&#8217;d make a buck on the appreciation. Remember? Prices were going up so fast it didn&#8217;t matter if you could afford it, as you&#8217;d always be able to sell. Or at least that&#8217;s what they said.</p>
<p>One out of 10 homeowners in CA has now stopped making their payments, 1 out of 3 is underwater due to prices being pushed beyond reason by unsustainable lending practices. Pretty hard to suggest this is all due to borrowers not being &#8220;adults&#8221;.</p>
<p>I totally get why renters and savers who didn&#8217;t listen to the experts and instead did the right thing are angry. But focus that anger on the folks that made these loans available, and the experts (think congress, fed chairman, etc) that told people adjustable mortgages were ok, and that the bubble wouldn&#8217;t burst.</p>
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		<title>By: mefron</title>
		<link>http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/blog/sean/whats-morality-got-to-do-with-it/#comment-6894</link>
		<dc:creator>mefron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 03:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.foreclosuretruth.com/?p=1133#comment-6894</guid>
		<description>Those of you who took out loans:  Why did you take out loans you couldn&#039;t afford to pay back?  I&#039;m not talking about what you did with the money.  I&#039;m talking about making a responsible decision.  Are you adults?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those of you who took out loans:  Why did you take out loans you couldn&#8217;t afford to pay back?  I&#8217;m not talking about what you did with the money.  I&#8217;m talking about making a responsible decision.  Are you adults?</p>
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